Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:37 am
Thankfully, Rosie bitch-slaps the irrational clown:
Quote :
Submitted by tvr on Wed, 2013-04-03 21:30.
All that matters here is your answers to the following questions:
1) Whose rights are being violated by a woman procuring an abortion, and why?
2) If no one's rights are being violated, by what right can you force others to act according to your morality?
Quote :
Submitted by Rosie on Sat, 2013-04-06 08:32.
In my opinion the "fundamental issues" are not simply or only the issue of rights and their violation, as you seem to think; first and foremost is the consideration of the plain and quite simple issue of the morality of abortion. The only right that is relevant to this fundamental issue is the right that is the opposite of wrong.
The first question to answer, therefore, is whether a fetus is an individual (as in its tissue is separate from the mother), alive and a human being. If it is, then to kill it must be wrong unless, of course, you approve of the taking of a live, unique, and individual human life.
To judge whether it is separate, individual, unique, alive and a human is plain, clear and obvious on the facts: it is.
If this is not plain and obvious to you, you may "repair" (as Linz says!) to the scientific evidence of its unique and separate-from-the-mother human dna and the fact that it is not dead (in which case it must be alive since one can not be alive and dead at the same time).
I will address your question of " legal rights" in my next post. (Notably, that every right has a correlative duty and in whom the right/duty relationship would fall in the case of mother and fetus being one issue I will raise but I can tell you that I do appreciate the argument you submit regarding whether a fetus is sufficient to have individual legal rights and that my greatest difficulty is in reconciling the immorality of abortion with the pragmatic belief that to not allow abortion would most probably not have my desired, idealistic effect of ensuring thought before action but, with the decline of religion and the ever increasing habits of promiscuity nowadays, instead it would only have the catastrophic results of backstreet abortions, unwanted children raised by solo mothers in poverty etc UNLESS family and social structures changed from the nuclear family to the extended family co-operatively living together at the same time - which is also unlikely.)
Before I do answer the "rights" issue, I would sincerely like you to think about my more fundamental and I think necessarily first single issue to answer - that of the morality of abortion as stated above - and give me your equally sincere answer to that issue.
Below I have taken some extracts from the article I link to at the end of this post. You will see that I am encouraging you to look at abortion from a different angle - that of the enormous industry that surrounds using the fetal body parts procured from abortions and selling them for scientific/medical experiments (and providing evidence from a 1999 paper that approximately 46 million abortions per year occur - and this number has increased substantially since those "halcyon" days - which supports my analogy that the number of lives lost through abortion makes the Holocaust look like the Western Front during the week before Christmas 1914). And, as you will see from the article, the analogy to the Holocaust does not stop at the sheer numbers of babies aborted.
I would like you to consider, too, the curious anomaly that medical ethicists do not consider the fetus (or even infants for that matter according to this article) to be sufficiently "human" to have any individual "rights" yet they are sufficiently "human" to be used for valid medical research and an enormous commercial industry of "aborted fetal body parts" to spring up since the 1950s for this purpose.
Suzanne Rini, who interviewed Ramsey and whose 1995 book Beyond Abortion: A Chronicle of Fetal Experimentation brought to light a body parts trade that’s existed since the 1950s, believes the very fact that scientists need the elixir of youth from fetuses may be the ethical catch-22 that kills the abortion industry. On the one hand, she says, medical researchers try to argue the foetus is not a live person. On the other, whether it’s a cure for Parkinson’s, diabetes, Huntington’s, MS or a range of other disorders, medical researchers claim the life in fetuses is the only thing that can save adults. But only if you kill the foetus first.
At the Nuremberg War Crimes trials, evidence was presented of horrific scientific experiments being performed on cap-tives in the concentration camps. The Nazi medics on trial attempted to justify it by saying the test subjects were due to die anyway and the knowledge gained would benefit the rest of humanity.
Needless to say, the Nazis were shot down in the courtroom (and later simply shot outside it) and Nuremberg issued a declaration condemning the role of the medical profession in experimentation and slaughter of innocents.
University of Auckland’s Keely Bumsted O’Brien resents modern scientists being likened to Hitler’s gruesome genetic engineers, and points out that when Germany’s Max Planck Institute for Brain Research recently discovered it possessed the brains of many Down’s Syndrome people slaughtered by the Nazis, the Institute did the decent thing.
“Rather than use [the brains for research], it was the decision of the Director to give those brains a decent burial. Which one could argue might be the ethical way to do it, if they were gathered by the Nazis in an unethical way dealing with eugenics. Now I don’t compare what I do to eugenics.”
“If you accuse, by default, Keely of behaving like somebody in a Nazi death camp, I do think that’s unfair. If the issues you’ve raised about ethical approval in America are resolved satisfactorily, if the mothers are in fact giving informed consent for the use of their tissue, that’s really quite different to somebody who’s in a Nazi death camp being experimented on,” says Barnes.
But doesn’t the answer, we pointed out, really turn on whether the fetus is the ‘mother’s tissue’ to dispose of in the first place?”
“To be honest with you, I think that that [whether a foetus is an individual human life or just part of the mother] is a broader debate which would have to take place in the country at large.”
It’s a good point. Researchers talk of the baby simply being “the mother’s tissue”, but advances in DNA mean we now know the foetus has its own unique DNA and tissue, and is not merely an extra piece of maternal flesh. The mother, in real scientific terms, can no more “own” the foetus on such grounds than she can “own” her older children and consent to their execution and vivisection. Is it time for renewed public debate?
It’s an argument that the University of Auckland is sympathetic to.
“If the result of that debate that you’re referring to is that it’s unethical to work with this kind of tissue, then we wouldn’t do. No question.”
Another who shares that view is Steven Bamforth, a Canadian geneticist harvesting fetal tissue at the University of Alberta for his research colleagues. Every day, his job entails sifting through aborted remains, searching for recognizable eyes, hearts, livers and other organs sought after by universities.
“The humanity is always before us,” Dr. Bamforth told Alberta Report magazine recently. “If society said this research is not acceptable, of course, we would immediately desist. It’s not something that I do happily.”
Nor does the “helping older people with their health” excuse carry water with Christopher Hook, of Illinois’ Centre for Bioethics and Human Dignity. He told World magazine the exploitation of pre-born children was “too high a price regardless of the supposed benefit. We can never feel comfortable with identifying a group of our brothers and sisters who can be exploited for the good of the whole. Once we have crossed that line, we have betrayed our covenant with one another as a society, and certainly the covenant of medicine.”
In New Zealand, the issue of conducting medical experiments on dead bodies – both adult and fetal – is currently the subject of an ethics committee review by the Ministry of Health. Keely Bumsted O’Brien was one of those who made submissions to hearings prior to the issue of a draft report last year, Review of the Regulation of Human Tissue and Tissue-based Therapies, available on the web.
The 131 page document records a majority of submissions believe research should be prohibited on bodies where the wishes of the deceased were not known prior to death, even if the family give their consent post-mortem. As a foetus cannot express its wishes, such a restriction could impact on the use of fetal tissue, especially if society eventually reaches a decision that a foetus is a human life.
Even so, the document also notes growing unease at the use of fetal tissue for experiments, and the fact that it currently falls outside of the regulations, and the Ministry is now considering giving fetal tissue fresh ethical protection. How far it goes will depend, ultimately, on public debate.
His 'Rights are properly the starting point of this discussion' is bullshit as morality precedes rights... first, it's meta & epi, then the nature of man (fetus included), then morality and only then 'rights' which pertain to a social context... fuckwit!
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:44 pm
Notice he changed his "starting point." From his first post:
Identifying what it is that qualifies one for humanhood, and ipso facto for possessing rights, is, I submit, the logical starting point to objectively identifying what rights entail. _________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:59 pm
Quote :
Submitted by Doug Bandler on Mon, 2013-04-22 22:32.
...As for Muslims, I don't ever think they can be assimilated. They must be prohibited from entry and those already here must be expelled. The only way a person from a Muslim land should ever be allowed entry is if they swear off Islam. Islam does not fall under the protection of "individual rights" because it is inherently violent.
They're like a bunch of gossiping women... just pathetic!
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:48 am
CovOps wrote:
Quote :
Submitted by Doug Bandler on Mon, 2013-04-22 22:32.
...As for Muslims, I don't ever think they can be assimilated. They must be prohibited from entry and those already here must be expelled. The only way a person from a Muslim land should ever be allowed entry is if they swear off Islam. Islam does not fall under the protection of "individual rights" because it is inherently violent.
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:54 am
Yeah, essentially... a conservative... just not as wedded to the full script. _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:58 am
Quote :
Orthodox Objectivists on the Boston Massacre
Submitted by Neil Parille on Wed, 2013-04-24 07:40.
The Objective Standard, an outfit run by Open Immigration Objectivists which has (or once had) ties to the ARI, has finally commented on the implications of the Boston Massacre.
According to TOS, it doesn't have much to do with immigration or even foreign policy; the takeaway is - I kid you not - that it shows the impracticality of anarchism.
Had there been no government—that is, no police, no law, no final arbiter restricting what people may do—how would these killers have been identified and apprehended? By individual citizens investigating and prowling around on their own? By multiple private “defense agencies,” each working for different individuals or groups and following their own favored practices regarding the use of force?
__________________
Is this a good argument or bad argument against anarcho-capitalism? Since the establishment of anarcho-capitalism is less likely than the restoration of the Stuarts, I've decided not to give it ten seconds of my precious mental energy.
Perhaps next AriAn Armstrong will tell us that the Brothers Tsarnaev would have voted Republican but for the "xenophobia" of the R party.
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:38 am
Quote :
Submitted by Michael Moeller on Sat, 2013-04-27 19:26.
I'll have more to say on that. I don't want to get sidetracked by a discussion on the nature of corporations. For now, just note that, like a marriage, a corporation is established by taking some formal actions defined by the state; namely, filing the Articles of Incorporation with the state and paying a fee.
LOL, this statist's starting point is always, 'what the government says.'
It's like he never heard of philosophy... _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri May 24, 2013 5:39 am
Quote :
Submitted by Jules Troy on Fri, 2013-05-24 05:43.
...Islamophobe is the fear of Islam. I am not really afraid of them. Honestly? I just think they should be contained. If they won't leave? I would kill them. All of them. Not out of hatred or malice, simply for self preservation.
Poor wittle 'objectivist.' If mystics disobey him, he'll murder them...
As if he's under siege or something... fucking randroid cretin! _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Also, had to adjust for his typing mistake. _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri May 24, 2013 6:03 am
And this young'un doesn't apparently get extorted enough by the state, as he even supports the murderers financially, of his own accord:
Quote :
Submitted by Marcus on Thu, 2013-05-23 08:15.
The soldier was wearing a Help for Heroes hoodie. Help for Heroes is a British charity that helps provide better facilities for British servicemen and women wounded since 11 September 2001.
I've just ordered myself four T-shirts, to be worn in public as often as possible.
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri May 24, 2013 5:18 pm
More lame nonsense from figarofatz:
Quote :
Submitted by Lindsay Perigo on Mon, 2006-02-06 23:49
...In the name of humanity, Islam must be put to death. Not by nuking, but by shaming. Not by the sword (though if the maggots leave us no alternative we should not hesitate to use it) but by the word.
This despite the fact, that they have been informing the West for years, with straight talk such as:
Quote :
''The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers … it's an eye for an eye … By Allah, we swear by almighty Allah, we will never stop fighting until you leave us alone.''
None are as blind, as those which refuse to see... _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Lame gregster whining about Muslims wanting change through violence, despite the fact that the current system, is totally 100% run and enforced by means of violence. Idiot! But the schmuck is a statist, so is blind to his own contradictions... ahhh, fuck him, wasted space! _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sun May 26, 2013 2:07 am
Since the retards at NOLO (Nonsense Of Life Objectivists) are going ape-shit feral, over a British born and bred (in a Christian family) but converted to Islam guy, who chopped up a UK soldier, here's some stats for the fuckers, if they ever land on our site:
Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence
At least 1,104 Israelis and 6,829 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.
If you thought the current state of play is unbearable, man, you ain't seen nothing yet!
Objectivist insanity continues... _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sun May 26, 2013 2:39 am
Then there's their proclamation that Islam is the only militant religion which seeks submission and/or death for the unbelievers. Hey, dickheads, I have news for you:
Murder in the Bible
The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of God from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.
The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible.
1) Capital Punishment Crimes:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:
Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Killing the Good Samaritan
The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.
When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)
3) Murdering Children
Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Kill Men, Women, and Children
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
God Kills all the First Born of Egypt
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
Kill Old Men and Young Women
"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)
God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
4) Miscellaneous Murders
More of Samson's Murders
(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)
Peter Kills Two People
There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception. Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied, "that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)
Mass Murder
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)
You Have to Kill
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
The Danites Kill the Next Town
But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)
God Kills Some More
Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?' tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity, to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them," says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away, the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)
God Promises More Killing
I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
The Angel of Death
My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)
Destruction of Ai
Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai, his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say, 'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained among the people in the camp that night.
Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai, accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley, he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and the city was left wide open.
Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city. They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.
When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29 NLT)
Killing at Jericho
When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)
God Kills an Extended Family
"You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him. He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial, for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16 NLT)
Mass Murder
The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites, putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)
The Angel of Death
That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)
Kill Your Neighbors
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)
Kill the Family of Sinners
And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said, Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep, and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26 Webster's Bible)
Kill Followers of Other Religions
While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)
Murder
At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD, answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)
Kill All of Babylon
"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)
Micah Kills a Whole Town
Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sun May 26, 2013 2:59 am
LOL, this is hilarious:
Quote :
Submitted by tvr on Sat, 2013-05-25 13:33.
...7)What lengths are you prepared to go to to prevent Sharia Law being implemented in your country for your grandchildren? What lengths are you not prepared to go to? 8 ) Why do you think Ayn Rand made Galt's Gulch entry by invitation only? Do you agree with her reasoning for making it so? If not, why not? If you do, what then is different about applying that same reasoning, at least to some degree, to our current society?
Well, if the "USA" were a libertarian "country," Muslims could only get in by private invitation, given that everything is private property. So thank the government for the current and past wholesale 'imports'... _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sun May 26, 2013 3:05 am
LOLOLOLOL! Seems by the time the NOLOists are through, there won't be many people left in the US of A.
Quote :
Submitted by Kyrel Zantonavitch on Sat, 2013-05-25 17:07.
...Dedicated communists, Nazis, and medieval Christians should also be denied immigration privileges, or deported
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sun May 26, 2013 3:26 am
Hey, wankers at NOLO, choke on these stats:
Are Christians more violent than Muslims?
Are Christians more violent than Muslims? What does the record say?
Murder rate: White America, like most Christian countries in the Americas, Africa and Eastern Europe, is markedly more violent than most of the Middle East (murders per 100,000 population):
0.6 Bahrain 0.7 Oman 0.8 United Arab Emirates 0.9 Qatar 1.0 Saudi Arabia 1.2 Egypt 1.7 Cyprus 1.8 Jordan 2.0 Iraq 2.1 Israel 2.2 Kuwait 2.2 Lebanon 2.3 Syria 3.0 Iran 3.3 Turkey 3.4 WHITE AMERICA 4.1 Palestine 4.2 Yemen
Terrorist attacks: According to the FBI, only 6% of the terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1980 and 2005 were carried out by Muslim extremists. Even Jewish extremists carried out more (7%).
War: Wars with at least a million dead:
Christian wars:
years: name: conservative body count in millions 535-554: Gothic Wars: 5.0m 790-1300: Reconquista: 7.0m 1096-1272: Crusades: 2.0m 1337-1453: Hundred Years’ War: 3.0m 1562-1598: French Wars of Religion: 3.0m 1568-1648: Dutch Revolt: 1.0m 1618-1648: Thirty Years’ War: 3.0m 1655-1660: Second Northern War: 3.0m 1763-1864: Russian-Circassian War: 2.0m 1792-1802: French Revolutionary Wars: 2.0m 1803-1815: Napoleonic Wars: 3.5m 1830-1903: War in Venezuela: 1.0m 1882-1898: Conquests of Menelik II of Ethiopia: 5.0m 1910-1920: Mexican Revolution: 1.0m 1914-1918: First World War: 20.0m 1917-1922: Russian Civil War: 5.0m 1939-1945: Second World War: 41.5m (European deaths only) 1946-1954: First Indochina War: 1.0m 1950-1953: Korean War: 1.2m 1955-1975: Vietnam War: 1.1m 1998-2003: Second Congo War: 2.5m
Muslim wars:
1370-1405: Conquests of Tamerlane: 7.0m 1681-1707: Conquests of Aurangzeb: 5.0m 1967-1970: Nigerian Civil War: 1.0m 1980-1988: Iran-Iraq War: 1.0m 1983-2005: Second Sudanese Civil War: 1.0m 1989-2001: Afghan Civil War: 1.4m
Seven times more people have died in Christian wars: 113.8 million compared to the 16.4 million who died in Muslim wars.
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sun May 26, 2013 4:05 am
The predictable response to this by NOLOist....
_________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Mon May 27, 2013 10:16 pm
An article for figarofatz and his genocidal ilk
Paul Sheehan said that there are "more than 100 verses in the Koran that call Muslims to violence against the Unbelievers."
Relying on the dubious website Thereligionofpeace.com Sheehan concludes that "the Koran groans under the weight of its own contradictions, with entreaties to kindness co-existing with exhortations to merciless war."
It is questionable whether such an opinion is a result of a direct insight into Islam – or based merely on an old prejudice against Islam that goes back in time: that Islam is inherently violent and intolerant of others.
Critics of Islam frequently quote out of context the more aggressive passages of the Koran, arguing that these verses could easily inspire and endorse terrorism. Advertisement
They ignore the fact that the Jewish and Christian scriptures can be just as aggressive, if taken out from their historical context.
For example, the Old Testament says: “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves” (Numbers 31:17-18).
Many violent Jewish and Christian groups have used these biblical texts to justify their actions. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians. But non-religious people have done the same in the name of one ideology of another.
In 2011, Anders Breivik massacred 77 people in cold blood. Breivik allegedly hated Muslims and Islam and subscribed to a fundamentalist, right-wing Christian ideology.
Of course, little to no mention was made by the media about Breivik's "religious" association, or that he was "devout" of any sort.
The tragedy, and hypocrisy, of Western journalism (with some exceptions) is their hunger to associate such crimes with Islam.
The display of violence and the killing of innocent people are indicative of a radical, and indeed extremist, mindset that is fundamentally opposite to the unanimous teachings of Islam.
A more objective and scholarly reading of the causes of terrorism would inform us of a host of causal factors, including: radical ideology; empathy and association with radicals; socio-economic factors; personal experiences; criminal activity; racism and Islamophobia.
All of these factors play a role, in one way or another, in the process of extremism and terrorism. The matter is thus complex, and it is culpably simplistic to attribute it to a single cause.
Tragically, like the terrorists he criticises, Sheehan takes the Koran out of context.
Take for example this partial quote cited by Sheehan, “And slay them wherever ye find them …” Sheehan fails to state that this is part of five-long verses (2:190-195), which must be read together. When read in context the legal implication derived stipulates that fighting is permitted only under certain strict circumstances. Additionally, the same verses prohibit transgression of limits, and it does not promote killing of innocent people but allows self-defence. It further goes on to state “if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.” Clearly, when the whole context is examined the verses do not promote killing of innocent people.
The same is true for all other verses (mis)quoted by Sheehan.
A fuller reading of the verses mentioned by Sheehan show that much restraint and care is emphasised. For example the Koran says: “… therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then God has opened no way for you (to war against them)” (4:89-91). And, “Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God does not love transgressors” (2:190).
Those who read the Koran should keep at a minimum the following principles in mind: The reasons for revelation or the historical context of a particular verse; familiarity with the science of abrogation; examination of the verses that deal with the same subject; a cursory knowledge of prophet Muhammad's life; and the way these verses are applied.
I dare to say that Sheehan lacks this level of scholarly knowledge, and that a simple reliance on a dubious website is problematic, to say the least.
When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted – by Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
When examined objectively, one will not fail to realise that the Koran and the teachings of the prophet Muhammad strictly condemn terrorism and the killing of innocent people, Muslim or not.
Sheehan conveniently fails to mention these verses and prophetic traditions, for example:
"… take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that you may learn wisdom" (Koran 6:151)
"… that if anyone killed a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land" (5:32)
Or the Hadith that states "Whoever kills a mu'ahid [non-combatant, innocent non-Muslims] will not smell the scent of paradise …" (Bukhari).
A contextual reading of the Koran or Hadith leads to one conclusion only: there is no justification for the killing of innocent people, whether in Baghdad or Boston. Full stop!
The ends do not justify the means in Islamic ethics!
Therefore, associating murder or the killing of innocent people and bystanders to "Islam" is not only abhorrent, but goes against the clear text of Islam.
A contextual reading of Islamic texts prohibits targeting innocent people such as women, children, religious people and others even during times of war. Disbelief, in and of itself, is not an excuse to kill anyone.
The koranic verses, which seem violent, were revealed at a time when the non-Muslims of Mecca attacked Muslims on a regular basis. They are to be interpreted within a legal and historical context, and not in isolation.
No competent and credible Muslim scholar would take the verses mentioned by Sheehan as permitting terrorism and the killing of innocent people. To the contrary!
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Tue May 28, 2013 3:07 am
CovOps wrote:
LOLOLOLOL! Seems by the time the NOLOists are through, there won't be many people left in the US of A.
Quote :
Submitted by Kyrel Zantonavitch on Sat, 2013-05-25 17:07.
...Dedicated communists, Nazis, and medieval Christians should also be denied immigration privileges, or deported
Come to think of it, leftist academics, intellectuals, activists, teachers, media, unionists, students, politicians, voters, etc., would also qualify for being anti-American, so they too should be thrown out...
And since randroids are anti-libertarians, they would also be on thin ice...
Hell, maybe the only people left would be the randroids themselves!
Of course, knowing them, they'd be at each others' throats so fast, it would make the spectators' noses bleed...
Presumably, the largest group would then win and eject the others... one of which would no doubt be figarofatz!
So presumably, Peikoff & his gang are the only ones left, LOL.
Thereby, finally, USA becomes The Galt's Gulch!
Less the actual, US of A!
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Tue May 28, 2013 3:16 am
You forgot the Beethoven lovers, rappers, anyone who doesn't have the full assortment of Mario Lanza's greatest hits. _________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Tue May 28, 2013 3:25 am
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Funnily enough, on TV I just heard how 100 years ago, the US had no restrictions on immigration. Whoever wanted to come and live here, could!
How's that for open border policy?! Unlike today... and with the corresponding disastrous results...
Not to mention total spectrum dominance, invading countries, murdering people in the Middle East and elsewhere, renditions, secret prisons, torture, water-boarding, regime changes, urinating on enemy corpses, supporting dictatorships, yadda-yadda...
But hey, none of that matters, because the propaganda says, 'they only hate us for our freedoms!'
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_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:09 am
Retards at NOLO should ponder upon laws such as this and not too long ago either:
Quote :
Until 1927, say Blade Witbooi and Helena Steenkamp, other races could obtain a permit to hunt and kill the Bushmen as they might the oryx or wildebeest.
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' 
Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:37 am
