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Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:34 pm
CovOps wrote:
What don't you get?
And what does he mean by:
Quote :
...the merchant's "Welcome" mat became an open contract with the public.
That's what I don't get. How can an objectivist hold such a position, when the ability to use one's mind to make discriminating judgements is central to objectivism?
Open contract? WTF?
His whole post is nonsense. Irrelevant.
He's also a member of rebirthofreason and Objectivistliving, so should know better! http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/GeneralForum/1721.shtml http://www.objectivistliving.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12682 _________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:51 pm
RandRoid retard, forgeddabbouddidd! _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:57 am
Despite even Rand insisting on a complete separation between the state and economics, ie. laissez faire, the lawyer-statist-RandRoid, Michael Moeller, still desires complete involvement... (and he's supposed to be one of the more knowledgeable RandRoids).
Here he is sputtering his nonsense, while criticizing fatz:
Quote :
Submitted by Michael Moeller on Fri, 2013-01-11 15:55.
...In any event, your rationalism is much easier to spot, in this case. You wrote:
"I would counter Michael's formulation with: Just as the government, in its role as protector of individual rights, must define murder, or any other involuntary relationship, so too it must *not* define marriage or any other voluntary relationship.
Really?
What about a landlord-tenant relationship?
What about a business partnership?
What about a licensor-licensee?
And on and on and on?
Rationalism rearing its ugly head, writ large. A brief glimpse at reality should have shown how false this is.
Just like these voluntary relationships, the definition and the consummation of them is written into law. By your general principle, the state is wrong to do such. Good luck with that.
And you still -- after about 5 levels of explanation -- do not understand that the point about contracts. You are pretending that two people can define anything as constituting a contract.
Newsflash #1: the government defines a valid contract. That is, the government would still be defining marriage via its definition of contract (i.e. it could STILL reject an agreement between two people as NOT being a marriage because it does not meet the state's requirements for contracts)...
Well, when the government is your master, I guess he's right, the state will define everything and the slaves will be obligated to obey!
That's the kind of irrationality we can expect from lawyers, and who are just the transmission-belts of evil, promoting, encouraging and cashing in on, the slavery of the state.
As they say, Kill The Lawyers First!
But this time, somebody, please start with 'molar!' _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
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Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:14 am
I guess this means the alleged contract that set up the govt/subject relationship in the first place isn't actually a contract at all, and might be more accurately described as dictatorship? _________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:58 am
Pretty much!
That's why there's never really been a 'consensual' government, anywhere, at any time. One way or another, it was always imposed on others, by force, fraud or coercion.
Who in their right mind, given a choice of self-sovereignty Vs being governed by total strangers, would choose the latter? RandRoid insanity continues...
And here's just a random sample:
Quote :
They have scattered Malian soldiers southwards, imposed strict Muslim laws on the civilian population and created a vast new haven for north African terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb.
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:52 am
And again:
Quote :
Hollande said France had decided to act to prepare the way for the eventual deployment of an African force in Mali to reconquer territory seized by the rebels.
Always the same shit! _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Is that like restrictive self-defense? _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:07 am
Quote :
The real contradiction is CORPORATIONS
Submitted by Sandi on Sat, 2013-01-19 04:31.
Corporations cannot exist without the force of government, the same force of government that individuals fight against.
:Jessica moment _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
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Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:17 pm
Backwards from Kyrel Zantonavitch
Quote :
Absurd.
If early abortion is truly murder, then justice demands that the mother and doctor be executed.
Meaning that since the doc and mother "obviously" wouldn't deserve to be executed, therefore abortion can't be murder! _________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:56 pm
Kyrel should be fed an embryo omelet...
Though perhaps he'd prefer it raw...
Since to him, it's 'just a bunch of cells'...
So after his first cannibalistic meal, perhaps he'd reconsider... _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:18 pm
A 'mass of cells' has a message for Kyle....
_________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:29 pm
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:47 am
Quote :
Threats Against Free Thought and Open Discussion
Submitted by Kyrel Zantonavitch on Wed, 2013-01-30 15:17.
Bishop Binswanger says "An objective threat of force is force."? But an objective threat of censorship and excommunication is censorship and excommunication. On his discussion forum, Binswanger is totally guilty of that. So what if he keeps out the riff-raff and uneducated? He kills free and open discussion. Solo Passion is far superior. Binswanger's a slimeball religious pseudo-Objectivist -- not a proper Objectivist or human being at all.
Priceless, LOL! _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:48 am
Quote :
Paul is a disgrace
Submitted by Doug Bandler on Tue, 2013-02-05 20:55.
He represents the worst of libertarianism and yet he is a HERO to libertarians. Which just goes to show that without Rand libertarianism, and Classical Liberalism as well, are HOPELESS and LOST.
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:40 am
Quote :
Hmmmm
Submitted by Lindsay Perigo on Mon, 2013-02-11 05:57.
... we must recognise also the awful paradox that the church of the Inquisition, the church of the persecution of Galileo and science generally, the church of sexual repression on the one hand and child molestation on the other, the church of the glorification of suffering … this institution at the same time has managed to engage and inspire what Ayn Rand called simply "the best within." Especially as embodied in John Paul II. Somehow he projected in his demeanour the quest for the highest possible. The total passion for the total height.
BIZARRE! _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:30 am
Quote :
Submitted by Doug Bandler on Mon, 2013-02-18 05:33.
Oh, I didn't know you were an anarchist. I'm not going to open that can of worms here but you know the war that exists between minarchists/Objectivists and anarchists. I was an anarchist for about a year and then I rejected it entirely. I actually think the anarchist libertarians are even WORSE than Leftists. That's not you Sandi. You're a good person that I think took a wrong turn at Albuquerque on this issue (who can guess where I stole that from - you get extra points). But I hope some details and some speculation on how a laissez faire society would deal with regulations gets addressed in this thread. Maybe we can come up with something new. But it is such an abstract subject that is so removed from the reality of semi-socialist America that solutions are just not visible to us at this point in history.
_________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:37 am
Quote :
Submitted by Doug Bandler on Tue, 2013-03-05 03:47.
...But anarchism is just dreadful. IMO, anarcho-libertarianism is the WORST and most nihilist of any of the political movements. They make Leftists look almost sane.
Oh dear... poor kid, as clueless as the next NOLOist... _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
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Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:34 pm
Rand:
Quote :
a human being’s life begins at birth
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Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:44 pm
Quote :
a human being’s life begins at birth
I'll agree with that...
And birth begins at conception... not when there's an address change, with a lodged mail redirection notice, at the local fallopian tube... _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:51 pm
_________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:40 pm
More crap on Figaro Fatz's site:
Quote :
The 'right to life' is said to be the most fundamental right. This is but an abbreviation; it is a human being's right to his own life that is the most fundamental right, i.e. one's right to humanhood.
Humanhood is defined as "the state or condition of being human."
The right to humanhood is, I submit, the right from which all other rights are derived, including the right to life, which is merely it's corollary.
Humanhood presupposes that one has a conscious existence, which presupposes that one is alive, i.e. that one is an actual living human being and not just a human body.
Identifying what it is that qualifies one for humanhood, and ipso facto for possessing rights, is, I submit, the logical starting point to objectively identifying what rights entail.
LIFE: NECESSARY BUT NOT ESSENTIAL
As far as we know, all life forms on Earth (at present) supervene on other life forms. Gametes that precede a zygote have 'life' in exactly the same sense that a zygote has 'life,’ it is just that a zygote's 'life' exists in a different form to that of gametes. In other words, new life no more comes into being at time of conception than new matter comes into existence at time of conception. Life exists as part of a continuum of life going back to each individual life form's oldest biological ancestor. What "comes into being" at time of conception is not new life, but a new form of life.
The state of being a human being is not defined by the characteristic of life any more than it is defined by water molecules or hydrogen atoms or anything else that is equally 'necessary' for a human being to exist. If one needed only to focus on a necessary characteristic and not on the essential and culminating characteristics of being a human being in arriving at what the most fundamental right is, one could argue that the most fundamental right is to Higgs boson particles, without which matter itself would not (supposedly) exist.
Absurd all right... spinning rationalizations just ain't gonna cut it! Equivocating ain't gonna cut it either. Neither will context switching between epi and morality. Or his constant moral equivalence. (See full post) He reminds me of some anarcho-capitalists and libertarians who argue that it's perfectly moral to murder children up to 2.5 years, because they have not yet developed a fully functioning rational faculty... you see, they're still just at an animal's level of intelligence... _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
RR Phantom
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Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:51 pm
Quote :
In other words, new life no more comes into being at time of conception than new matter comes into existence at time of conception.
Quote :
What "comes into being" at time of conception is not new life, but a new form of life.
It's a new individual life. _________________ Anarcho Capitalists Retail , OZschwitz Downunder BoutiqueAnarcho-Capitalists,AnCaps Forum,Anti-State,Anti-Statist,Inalienable Rights Defenders,Non-Aggression Principle,Non-Initiation of Force Principle,Rothbardians,Anarchist,Capitalist,objectivism,Ayn Rand,Anarcho-Capitalism,Anarcho-Capitalist,politics,libertarianism,Ancap Forum,Anarchist Forum,Vulgar Libertarians,Hippies of The Right,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalist,Forum for Anarcho-Capitalists,Forum for AnCap,Forum for AnCaps,Libertarian,Anarcho-Objectivist,Freedom, Laissez Faire, Free Trade, Black Market, Randroid, Randroids, Rothbardian, AynArchist, Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, Anarchism, Anarchy, Free Market Anarchism, Free Market Anarchy, Market Anarchy
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:56 pm
Quote :
a new form of life.
What, a mosquito? Cow? Ringworm? Wha?
Should be: 'a new form of the same specie's life.' _________________ Anarcho-Capitalist, AnCaps Forum, Ancapolis,OZschwitz Contraband “The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual, crime.”-- Max Stirner "Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it." -- Kurt Hofmann
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Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists'
Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists'
Subject: Re: Ayn Rand's Statist, Randroid Idiots: Out of the mouths of 'Objectivists' 
Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:34 pm
