Age : 57 Location : Hillsborough, NC Job/hobbies : Contract computer programming, linux, reading Humor : I do have a sense of humor
Subject: Hello all Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:39 pm
Interesting coincidence. I recently referenced the book, "The Great Santini" on another forum, and in that book the lead character (Santini) often uses that phrase "Sports Fans". I never knew where it came from. So I assumed it originated in that book. And now someone else used that phrase in a message...
Oh well.
I'm male, 42 living in Hillsborough, NC with my wife and 2 kids under 10 years old. I usually say I make my income as an occasional computer programmer, and specifically I like working with linux, very low level (hardware drivers, assembly language, system design, that sort of stuff). I used to have the CTO roll of a company out in California called NXTV which provided video on demand to 4 and 5+ star hotels throughout the world. I had the CTO roll but not the actual title.
In 2007 we moved to North Carolina to reduce living expenses and get out of the overcrouding of California. We managed to convert our equity in our house there into a new house here in NC, about 3X the size (another enticement to leaving California). Lots of reasons for leaving, one important one is I wanted to be able to focus exclusively on my passion, which is solving the riddle of What Intelligence Is, specifically with the intent of creating true Machine Intelligence. Talking robots and such. The stuff of science fiction. Yes, it's actually possible to do it and it'll happen long before people expect it to.
I got sidetracked with exploring the economy, and gradually came to the realization of just how corrupt the USA is, how corrupt the USA empire is, and how much outright lying is going on in America. Corruption everywhere, no area is left clean. Education, college, etc is corrupt. Government sponsored research is corrupt. All government programs are corrupt. Most businesses appear to be corrupt. The patent and copyright systems are corrupt. The list goes on...Current scientific understanding I believe to be hopelessly misguided -- String Theory is mysticism, The Big Bang theory is completely wrong, and its popularity is somewhat boosted because it coincides with the Christian faith (Genesis -- "And God said, Let there be light!"). A book I really love and recommend is, "The Big Bang Never Happened" by Eric Lerner...
I invested some money in silver and am hoping that will turn out well. Good time to buy some if you haven't already, and if you can find any of course.
The above post was salvaged from another forum. Why type it twice?
So as for my personal philosophy (ies): 1) I don't believe in a Creator, god, or that any of the religions are in fact true. 2) I don't believe there is any fundamental meaning in life. 3) I've never understood the free will vs determinism debate. From the universe's point of view everything might be predictable and the outcome is known, down to the end of time. But from our point of view? We have to live through it. We make our own decisions. We don't know what's coming next. So I believe in free will, but I don't believe determinism and free will are actually mutually exclusive. So maybe I don't understand the question even. 4) I don't believe in the Big Bang, Dark Matter, or pixie dust. I don't believe Black Holes, contracting to a singularity, actually exist or could form. I believe this Universe is eternal, has existed forever, and will exist forever. I don't believe it will ever run down. 5) I believe making intelligent machines is achievable, and could be done in a matter of a few short years if the right resources combined with the correct focus were brought to bear on the problem. Just as The Bomb was built when Oppenheimer was in charge of the Manhattan project, if I were in charge of The Brain project it would get done. And I believe it's actually a far simpler problem than building the first A-bomb. Or the space race. 6) I don't trust governments or their statistics. I loath the Federal Reserve, the IRS, and fiat currencies not backed by something real such as gold or silver. I used to be a libertarian, now I'm in favor of No Government. I suppose that means I'm an Anarchist. I'd be willing to try it.
Oh well enough about me.
I wonder if there is a chat room on this forum? Doesn't seem to be...
(Bwahahaha!!! You're gonna bury us with those two typing fingers of yours!)
While I know basically zero about AI, I'd venture to say that unless machines can duplicate, say the human mode of cognition, there won't be any substantial progress. By that I mean, integrating sensations into perceptions then into valid conceptions, all the while being self-aware of at least the perception/conception phase. (That's basically how we function...)
Re your philosophy:
1) I don't believe in a Creator, god, or that any of the religions are in fact true. Neither do we.
2) I don't believe there is any fundamental meaning in life. Agree, we have to do that ourselves, on an individual basis.
3) I've never understood the free will vs determinism debate. From the universe's point of view everything might be predictable and the outcome is known, down to the end of time. But from our point of view? We have to live through it. We make our own decisions. We don't know what's coming next. So I believe in free will, but I don't believe determinism and free will are actually mutually exclusive. So maybe I don't understand the question even. In a nutshell for now: Free will advocates claim they can make decisions which are not "preordained," determinists claim the opposite. I hold free will to be epistemologically an axiom, hence can't be "proved," while being bound by our very nature, so from that perspective also deterministic.
4) I don't believe in the Big Bang, Dark Matter, or pixie dust. I don't believe Black Holes, contracting to a singularity, actually exist or could form. I believe this Universe is eternal, has existed forever, and will exist forever. I don't believe it will ever run down. Big Bang maybe, Dark Matter nope, pixie dust nope, Black Holes maybe, singularity maybe... universe eternal yes, but perhaps changes state...
5) I believe making intelligent machines is achievable, and could be done in a matter of a few short years if the right resources combined with the correct focus were brought to bear on the problem. Just as The Bomb was built when Oppenheimer was in charge of the Manhattan project, if I were in charge of The Brain project it would get done. And I believe it's actually a far simpler problem than building the first A-bomb. Or the space race. Maybe you're right! So keep tinkering in the garage, till you make it happen!
6) I don't trust governments or their statistics. I loath the Federal Reserve, the IRS, and fiat currencies not backed by something real such as gold or silver. I used to be a libertarian, now I'm in favor of No Government. I suppose that means I'm an Anarchist. I'd be willing to try it. Then we're in full agreement!
PS. There is a live chat on the index page, bottom left, just click on it... but who would dare go there with you... you'd just drown us with your speed!!!
:D
PS2. Given that silver has been declining for almost a year, I'm afraid we're still only short sellers...
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Hello all Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:34 pm
Hi dash.
I pretty much concur with CovOps (at least on the things I comprehend). What's your opinion of the Mathematical Universe Hypothesis?
dash
Age : 57 Location : Hillsborough, NC Job/hobbies : Contract computer programming, linux, reading Humor : I do have a sense of humor
Subject: Re: Hello all Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:04 pm
Nemo wrote:
Hi dash.
I pretty much concur with CovOps (at least on the things I comprehend). What's your opinion of the Mathematical Universe Hypothesis?
You know, when I look at this forum I find essentially all the posts come from you two -- CovOps and Nemo. You don't have real identities. No real names, no real avatar pictures. No web pages. No known location in the world. CovOps at least claims to be 42, born June 6, 1966, and female. Beyond that...?
I kind of like to know who I'm talking to. I could be talking to the kids from Ender's game, for all I know.
As the Joker said in Batman, "I've taken off my mask. Now let's see if the Batman will take off his."
-Dave
dash
Age : 57 Location : Hillsborough, NC Job/hobbies : Contract computer programming, linux, reading Humor : I do have a sense of humor
Subject: Re: Hello all Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:15 pm
Nemo wrote:
What's your opinion of the Mathematical Universe Hypothesis?
I believe that for 1) All possible mathematical systems, 2) with all possible physical laws expressable in those systems, 3) with all possible initial conditions, 4) Are each the basis of a real and operating Universe.
We only know our own. But all possible universes exist. They're all cut off from each other, completely separate. But they're real, within their own reality. It's a bewildering infinity of infinity of Universes we're speaking about here. It's because Information itself has no limits.
Age : 57 Location : Hillsborough, NC Job/hobbies : Contract computer programming, linux, reading Humor : I do have a sense of humor
Subject: Re: Hello all Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:22 am
CovOps wrote:
Why do you say that?
Well, I prefer to know to whom I'm speaking, and you prefer to remain anonymous.
I don't know how to resolve it. Hence -- impasse!
-Dave ETA: Also I tried reading your + Nemo's posts to get a "feel" for who you are. And I can't . Most of your posts are cut + pastes of articles dug up on the internet. There's nothing for me to go on, guys. With Molyneux, he posted vast numbers of podcasts, videos of himself, there were his writings. It's as if I knew his mindset before I ever met the fellow. You people...are like ghosts! And I say that with all due respect.
Dash, this is a relatively new forum, which only went "public" about a couple of months ago... hence not many interactions, such as say on fdr...
Yes, we do post stories from news, etc., which are relevant to people who are interested in philosophy, politics, anarcho-capitalism, etc... Since I'm no n00bie to the subject matter, expositions such as at fdr, are pretty thin on the ground, still, if anyone wants to open a particular discussion, that's fine too.
Given your previous posts and knowing this is an ancap site, we seem to have much in common in terms of values. (Though multiple universes won't be one of them.) If that's sufficient to keep interacting, fine, if not, then so be it.
Wasn't it you that said (at fdr), how various similar groups can see eye to eye 99% of the time, but then they screw up in effect, by clawing each others eyes out, over that last 1%. That kind of reminds me of this so called "impasse."
dash
Age : 57 Location : Hillsborough, NC Job/hobbies : Contract computer programming, linux, reading Humor : I do have a sense of humor
Subject: Re: Hello all Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:06 am
CovOps wrote:
Wasn't it you that said (at fdr), how various similar groups can see eye to eye 99% of the time, but then they screw up in effect, by clawing each others eyes out, over that last 1%. That kind of reminds me of this so called "impasse."
Part of what people like about the internet is they can have a different identity from the one they have in real life -- sometimes.
It may be fine for some people to devote their time to discussing issues with anonymous internet entities. The true spirit of debate entirely removes the speakers from the equation, so that only the ideas themselves remain.
However I'm not prepared to make that leap. I'm not prepared to invest my time in creating content for a mysterious forum visited by anonymous people whose identities are closely guarded. Why should I? I already know my thoughts on the subjects I'm interested in. All I might hope to gain is sharing my knowledge with you and Nemo. But...I don't even know who you are!
Moreover, there is no evidence that I can see in a cursory investigation of this site that there is even the potential for me to learn something from the two of you.
Here's a joke: Suppose I invest lots of time here and we discuss lots of subjects, and I find the discussions deep and intriguing. Then one day you or Nemo let slip a line like, "Hang on, I've got to go. My mommy said I have to walk the dog." Well that's going to be humiliating for me. What? I've just been spending time with children?
What about the Liberating Minds website? Do you or Nemo have an account over there?
You do "know" who we are, you even used our "names." No different to us knowing that you are "dash."
And even if you were communicating with 15 year olds, so what? Prejudiced? If you enjoyed yourself, made new friends, learned a thing or two, well then, I'd suggest it was time well spent.
Bwahahaha!!! So you don't think you can learn a thing or two from us, eh? Let me put it to you this way, whatever you can learn from fdr, or LiMi, you can learn more here. Both those places are full of kids... kids who have only recently been exposed to this type of a philosophy... for one thing, I'm considerably older then they are (nothing to do with my profile details... that's just for a laugh... notice the number which repeats in that birth date for instance...) not to mention experienced...
And so while they might have more members and even more posts, the qualitative aspect of it, leaves a lot to be desired. Also, I do not have an account there, but Nemo does.
Finally, comparatively speaking, we are more militant and radical in our approach and philosophy, then the typically conservative flavored, other libertarian/ancap sites.
dash
Age : 57 Location : Hillsborough, NC Job/hobbies : Contract computer programming, linux, reading Humor : I do have a sense of humor
Subject: Re: Hello all Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:21 am
CovOps wrote:
You do "know" who we are, you even used our "names." No different to us knowing that you are "dash."
And even if you were communicating with 15 year olds, so what? Prejudiced? If you enjoyed yourself, made new friends, learned a thing or two, well then, I'd suggest it was time well spent.
Bwahahaha!!! So you don't think you can learn a thing or two from us, eh? Let me put it to you this way, whatever you can learn from fdr, or LiMi, you can learn more here. Both those places are full of kids... kids who have only recently been exposed to this type of a philosophy... for one thing, I'm considerably older then they are (nothing to do with my profile details... that's just for a laugh... notice the number which repeats in that birth date for instance...) not to mention experienced...
And so while they might have more members and even more posts, the qualitative aspect of it, leaves a lot to be desired. Also, I do not have an account there, but Nemo does.
Finally, comparatively speaking, we are more militant and radical in our approach and philosophy, then the typically conservative flavored, other libertarian/ancap sites.
So...I now don't even have the benefit of knowing your real age, as you admit that information is a fiction.
I'm more than "dash". Because if you examine my profile, you see an outside email address, but even more you see a link to my webpage. You at least know I'm in Hillsborough, NC. Or at least I say that's where I am. You say nothing at all! In fact all you say is that I could learn a lot from you...or more specifically I could learn more from you than I could at either FDR or Liberating Minds.
Can I ask at least one question? Are you and Nemo physically close to each other? Same city, same domicile, that sort of close?
Another point, it almost appears that if I were to get involved in a discussion here, it might be the very first one.
I had wanted to build content there. Content invites visits. Visits perhaps can be turned into money. Or more important, the power to spread ideas I want to spread. But my forums didn't reach a critical mass in the amount of time I was willing to devote to the "project".
Now effectively you're encouraging me to devote time to creating content here. What if I offer a counter proposal? Suppose I set up accounts for you and Nemo on my forums, and we discuss some things there? And you can maintain your anonymity. Fair trade?
You keep trying to convince me that whether you're a 15 year old or not doesn't matter. But you see, it does matter. The argument you presented, the ones you might present, do you really think I haven't already considered them? It's like just repitition. I am concerned about the fact that I have no idea who I'm communicating with. You effectively respond with, "Don't worry about it, it's ok." That's not how it works, changing my mind isn't quite _that_ easy.
If you respond tonight, don't wait for a response from me, I'll be going to bed after I send this off. I'll visit again tomorrow.
So...I now don't even have the benefit of knowing your real age, as you admit that information is a fiction.
Funny thought: dash goes to a function, but refuses to engage with people, until they tell him, their full name, address, age, etc., on the grounds that since he's prepared to state everything about himself to strangers, they ought to do likewise. And if they don't, watch out! Isn't that just hilarious? So if it's any consolation to you, I do have brown eyes, OK?
I'm more than "dash". Because if you examine my profile, you see an outside email address, but even more you see a link to my webpage. You at least know I'm in Hillsborough, NC. Or at least I say that's where I am. You say nothing at all! In fact all you say is that I could learn a lot from you...or more specifically I could learn more from you than I could at either FDR or Liberating Minds.
To yourself you are more than "dash." But not to me, I m̘et and know you as "dash," and that was by your choice, which I respect and am happy with. I have not examined your profile, nor will I. An email, a web page... c'mon man... for all I know you're a covert operative engaged in info-mining. I say nothing at all, because for the purposes of this forum, I am not important, ideas are. I don't care for either your real name or address, nor for ego tripping myself. You just got booted from a forum where the top dog ego trips 24/7. Not a pretty sight... As for learning more here than there, yeah, I believe that to be an accurate state of affairs.
Can I ask at least one question? Are you and Nemo physically close to each other? Same city, same domicile, that sort of close?
You mean, do we sleep together? Ummm... no. (This is getting so funny, I'm almost in tears...)
Another point, it almost appears that if I were to get involved in a discussion here, it might be the very first one.
Well it wouldn't be... but even if it was, so what? It's not against the law you know...
I had wanted to build content there. Content invites visits. Visits perhaps can be turned into money. Or more important, the power to spread ideas I want to spread. But my forums didn't reach a critical mass in the amount of time I was willing to devote to the "project".
Now effectively you're encouraging me to devote time to creating content here. What if I offer a counter proposal? Suppose I set up accounts for you and Nemo on my forums, and we discuss some things there? And you can maintain your anonymity. Fair trade?
Thanks for the offer, but doesn't this just invalidate your desperate need to know our identities and our longitude and latitude? If you'd be comfortable not knowing who we are at your place, you might as well be comfortable with it here.
You keep trying to convince me that whether you're a 15 year old or not doesn't matter. But you see, it does matter. The argument you presented, the ones you might present, do you really think I haven't already considered them? It's like just repitition. I am concerned about the fact that I have no idea who I'm communicating with. You effectively respond with, "Don't worry about it, it's ok." That's not how it works, changing my mind isn't quite _that_ easy.
Since you're still so concerned with the fact that you don't know who you're communicating with, and since I hate to see you suffer over it, if you'd like, permit me to encourage you to use the left click on your mouse, and parachute out of here. This should provide instantaneous relief and all will be well afterwords... how's that, OK?
If you respond tonight, don't wait for a response from me, I'll be going to bed after I send this off. I'll visit again tomorrow.
OK.
dash
Age : 57 Location : Hillsborough, NC Job/hobbies : Contract computer programming, linux, reading Humor : I do have a sense of humor
Subject: Re: Hello all Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:44 am
CovOps wrote:
OK.
Yipe! Don't get so upset. This is a calm discussion, I'm certainly not trying to turn it into an argument. And I don't mean to be putting you in a position where you have to convince me to stick around this forum. I'm just trying to work out reasons for myself why I should stick around here, and I'm not having much luck. In the midst of this some of what I've said might sound offensive.
For example in thinking about it, when I say something like, "I don't see any eveidence here that indicates there is anything I can learn something." This is paraphrasing my own words. Now this is stating a simple fact, I wouldn't be the first one to make the observation, but I might be the first one to state it plainly. So many white lies -- little untruths that lubricate social interaction. But not saying a truth is a form of lying also. There might be someone you'd want to hang out in your forums, they post a while, then fade away, and you have no idea why they didn't stick around. I'LL actually tell you all the reasons -- give you what I'd consider useful feedback.
Anyway to address your specific points -- I was absolutely NOT asking about your personal sleeping habits, or who you share your bed with. I was asking about physical locality, whether you and Nemo were nearby each other -- and _that_ question was not answered. I don't know who you two are. I'm trying to determine if you know each other's real identities. It's a safe assumption, I'd think. But I'm just looking for verification.
Regarding the left mouse button, is that a nice way of saying I'm free to go away whenever I want? And you won't be bothered if I choose to go away? I would naturally assume both statements are true anyway. But expressing it as you have seems to indicate to me you're getting bored with this whole identity question and you want to express the concept, "Well, dash, those are the ground rules, take 'em or leave 'em. I've got more important things to do!"
Regarding the your forum vs mine, if you go to my forum and post, I get the benefit of your posts in my arena. I'm willing to live with not knowing who you are in that place. Indeed there are other members there who are just names and I have no idea who they are. But they've posted, and I have control of the words they wrote down. I set up the arena, and value was created. However on my forums people know exactly who I am. With a very little bit of browsing one would inescapably conclude I'm a real person, dash is short for David Ashley and I've got a website http://www.linuxmotors.com where I give away free open source software, and I'm also available for contract work in computer programming, especially in the embedded, low level driver area, which I enjoy the most.
So in a nutshell, I host a forum, but my identity is open. I don't expect or demand to know the identities of anyone joining my forum.
You, on the other hand, host a forum, but your identity is a mystery. I join your forum but you say you don't care about my real identity!
Do you see the difference? It comes back to who receives the value-added. I engage in posting on your forum, you get it. If it goes on in my forum, I get it.
If you spent a bit of time actually digging into my identity, you'd find it highly unlikely that I'm an agent sent to try to trap you. You've mentioned that your approach to anarchy is more militant or activist, or words to that effect. I hear that and I imagine Militia -- gun "enthusiasts" ready to go into action once the government oppression starts. Cool stuff! But there is danger getting pulled into such a croud. Guilt by association and all. A family moved up to a mountain in Idaho, Ruby Ridge, and the father was duped into using a hacksaw to cut off the barel of a shotgun as a favor to a friend. Well, the friend was an FBI agent bent on entrapping this guy. The FBI went in to arrest him because he refused to be blackmailed into becoming an informant for a militant neonazi (as they believed it to be) organization. The story ended with the man's son and wife getting shot and killed. Trajedy!
How do I know you're not agents of the government trying to entrap me? How do I know you're not crazy revolutionary types who are on the government's watch list, and I'll be judged by your actions if I continue associating with you?
I think I've got some valid concerns!
So once again, would you consider posting over on my forums? I don't have open registration because every day I had to delete 5+ spam accounts. But I will gladly setup accounts for you and Nemo, even with different names in case you don't want CovOps and Nemo to be traced back here.
One other thought -- this thread of discussion, this is building value itself. You see I appear to be perfectly happy in pursuing this debate, on your forum, under your terms. You are the one seeming to get impatient with this. I'd like to ask you -- what sort of discussion would you _prefer_ to engage in than this one? What would you like to talk about instead?
-Dave
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Hello all Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:33 pm
dash wrote:
You've mentioned that your approach to anarchy is more militant or activist, or words to that effect. I hear that and I imagine Militia -- gun "enthusiasts" ready to go into action once the government oppression starts. Cool stuff! But there is danger getting pulled into such a croud. Guilt by association and all. A family moved up to a mountain in Idaho, Ruby Ridge, and the father was duped into using a hacksaw to cut off the barel of a shotgun as a favor to a friend. Well, the friend was an FBI agent bent on entrapping this guy. The FBI went in to arrest him because he refused to be blackmailed into becoming an informant for a militant neonazi (as they believed it to be) organization. The story ended with the man's son and wife getting shot and killed. Trajedy!
How do I know you're not agents of the government trying to entrap me? How do I know you're not crazy revolutionary types who are on the government's watch list, and I'll be judged by your actions if I continue associating with you?
I might be able to allay some of your concerns. I am not involved in any militia or gun club. I have never used a gun for any purpose, don't own one, and don't plan to.
CovOps and I live in different cities. We know a certain amount about each other, but perhaps less than you might think.
dash
Age : 57 Location : Hillsborough, NC Job/hobbies : Contract computer programming, linux, reading Humor : I do have a sense of humor
Subject: Re: Hello all Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:04 pm
Nemo wrote:
I might be able to allay some of your concerns. I am not involved in any militia or gun club. I have never used a gun for any purpose, don't own one, and don't plan to.
CovOps and I live in different cities. We know a certain amount about each other, but perhaps less than you might think.
Nemo,
Thanks for that info.
I think I'll accept that you both wish to remain anonymous in your own forum. You are always welcome to visit my forum and I'll setup accounts for you, just shoot me an email to dashxdr@gmail.com. But it looks like neither of you are so interested. Indeed neither am I. It's a lot of work posting in one's own forums -- one feels compelled to respond to everything...
CovOps -- did I offend you in some way? If so I sincerely apologize. I was enjoying our banter, it did seem to cut off abruptly.
I did review a thread on this forum where some fellow was debating the viability of a stateless society. It was in the high octane one-on-one section, andrergsanchez was on one side.
In reading that debate it became clear to me andr's fundamental argument rests entirely on his faith-based belief that the state is necessary. He accepts that as given. Those taking the opposing side don't. So a rational argument is impossible under these conditions. Andrergs... seemed unable to even consider questioning his core beliefs. Eventually he faded away, the debate petered out.
I went over to Karl Denninger's forum and posted a comment:
directed at Karl. The vehemence and vitriol I received -- it was overwhelming. I can't function under these conditions. The phrase "echo chamber" seems apt for that forum. Anyone questioning their core beliefs is roundly stoned. The toxic atmosphere really ruins my day...
Happy new year, guys! -Dave
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Hello all Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:46 pm
dash wrote:
I went over to Karl Denninger's forum and posted a comment:
directed at Karl. The vehemence and vitriol I received -- it was overwhelming. I can't function under these conditions. The phrase "echo chamber" seems apt for that forum. Anyone questioning their core beliefs is roundly stoned. The toxic atmosphere really ruins my day...
Your basically dealing with religious zealots -- state worshipers. Expect them to respond rationally and you'll be disappointed.
Noteworthy advice you gave here... ;)
Quote :
Get a gun or two, plenty of ammunition ... When agents of Homeland Security kick in your door, you're going to die anyway. At least take some of them out with you.
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Hello all Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:17 pm
Quote :
Get a gun or two, plenty of ammunition ... When agents of Homeland Security kick in your door, you're going to die anyway. At least take some of them out with you.
That reminds me of a debate we had with a pacifist which you might like to read...
Not much of a debate, the fellow's mindset seems very trusting of government.
It would be so nice if there were a new New World where people who wanted to be free could simply relocate to. But all the land is taken. No need to debate with sleepwalkers anymore...
Almost midnight. I baked some peanut cookies for the family about an hour ago. We're going to set off some fireworks. We're on the eastern time zone. Full house! My wife's relatives are all visiting for the holidays.
-Dave
RR Phantom
Location : Wasted Space Job/hobbies : Cayman Islands Actuary
Subject: Re: Hello all Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:49 am
dash wrote:
It would be so nice if there were a new New World where people who wanted to be free could simply relocate to. But all the land is taken.
There's still Antarctica!
Quote :
Almost midnight. I baked some peanut cookies for the family about an hour ago. We're going to set off some fireworks. We're on the eastern time zone. Full house! My wife's relatives are all visiting for the holidays.
Subject: Hello all 
Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:39 pm
